Yep, at least once a week it happens! And if I played more, I'm sure I'd see it more often. I'm in a hand, heads up or close to it. I've acted and the action moves to someone else at the table. And then, someone not in the hand, starts to rattle off their interpretation of the action. Either what they believe that I would make such a move with or what hands available would be a good call. Not always do they make the right interpretation, and in fact, most of the time, they're wrong, but I have made my play against the remaining people in the hand based on the way that I would expect for them to react.... either with a call or a fold. The last thing that I need is some jack-legged, penis-impaired commentator putting their spin on the hand that COULD change my competitors normal reaction and thus screw up my play. Sorry, that sort of got out of hand there.... I know we've all gotten a little loose with it, especially those of us who play in the Juice's pool because rules don't apply there that do apply at practically every other game on the planet. But we all put it up with it because in most cases it is the Juice and there are no trees in his world... at least that he didn't plant or permit to live.
In most instances, I think the comments are made without really thinking about the consequences for the other people in the hand. I don't think they are made to hurt or provoke the player making the play - I think it is done just to keep some conversation going at the table, but a lot of times, these pots are of consequence and all of us just want one player to a hand. Again, I'm fine with table conversation, I just don't think that anyone that is NOT in the hand should be making any comments good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent that might impact someone else's action.
The other night I called a guy on it when I had a made a big re-raise at the Juice and the chatty observer was taunting the Juice to make the call or something to that effect... I know he wasn't doing it to cost me money, but it could have worked out that way. He cited the prodding by the Juice in pre-flop Omaha 8 when the Juice is trying to get the entire table to straddle all the way around the table so that essentially everyone is all-in.... pre-flop.... blind! While there are some similarities as the Juice is pleading with each player in turn to put in a blind raise, it is different because it is blind and pre-flop so there really isn't much of a strategy other than do it and hope to hit the flop and then make some crazy over-bet to isolate to one or two players. Not a very good strategy as in most instances you'll miss and some maniac playing Jx, 9x, 7x, 5x rainbow will flop quad nines. The other difference is that the Juice is still IN that hand while chatty-Kathy's prodding came at a time when I had raised, everyone else had folded to the Juice and our commentator was already out of the hand! No big deal other than it's just not correct poker etiquette.
It happened the previous Friday in Cary when Elli raised after the flop when the flop was 9x, 5x, 5x. Everyone folded to me and I was holding Quad-Fives. Normally, in most hands, you might want a call, but unfortunately I really didn't have a low draw so I would have been more than happy to take the pot as it was at the time so I potted it. He called and by the time the turn card hit, he was putting all of his chips in the pot on what was a pretty poor low draw and yeppirs... he got there! Nice!
I know that Tom has felt it as well... he began a blog a while back called "Thrown Down the Well" and if I remember correctly, it was a slightly different circumstance, but close. I believe if you're in a cash game and a guy goes all in and there are two callers, if they say something like "do you want to check it down?" or anything even remotely close to that, well, I probably shouldn't say what I truly feel, but it's just wrong! Oh, you can think about it, but don't you do it!
The other thing that is pretty annoying are the guys who once the hand is over MUST announce what they think your cards are in an effort to show what a masterful reader of players and cards they are! Yep, at best, they'll connect with my actual cards about once or twice a night. I just smile and say "how'd you know?"
At any rate, I thought that I would throw it up on the board and see if anyone else had any comments on this child's game practice. I don't believe that it is actually in violation of any poker rules other than perhaps the "one player to a hand rule" but it is ALWAYS in violation of good poker etiquette.So... to speak or not to speak? In a word, STFU!
And Let the Suck Outs Begin!
2 comments:
We had a long chat about this same thing at our last game. A little aggressive railbirding isn't always a bad thing. I think over the years we've goaded people into making as many bad calls that lost as good call that held up or were against stone bluffs or draws. Usually it's the collective animus rooting against the big stack for the night, so it can have a 'leveling' effect on single-night winnings, also not a bad thing in our friendly game.
That being said, when it becomes routine practice I don't think its a positive, especially when it's some of the 'senior' players doing it, because their opinions carry more weight.
I think we made some half-ass rule like 'if it's a big pot, and someone's all-in, and it's a big decision, shut-the-hell up. If it's an average sort of thing, or someone's tournament life isn't on the line, armchair away.
Personally, I find the casual 'hope nobody has xxx cards' comments post-flop that bug me worse, b/c it may be a non-obvious flop to some until pointed out explicitly.
Sounds like someone forgot to take their happy pills. I agree, for the most part, with Scott. In a perfect world, you would have lively poker banter that would go just far enough...then stop just short of crossing the line. In the real world, every table has players who vary greatly in experience, skill level, common sense, and alcohol content. This is a large part of what makes the game interesting, as well as profitable.
I've been burned by inappropriate comments many times over the years, as all of have, and I'm quite sure I've inadvertently made a few of these comments myself. Even though it can be frustrating at the time, in the big picture this is a case when I don't mind taking the occasional bad with the good.
For me, though I wouldn't play the game if I had fun but didn't make money, I also wouldn't play it if I made money but didn't have fun. If we all had to sit around in silence, afraid of possibly saying the wrong thing, then I'd just as soon stay at home and watch Saved By the Bell reruns.
This is not to say we shouldn't all try to be careful, especially when someone is involved in a big pot (though in our perfect world, the pot size shouldn't matter). Still, on those occasions when I'm "the victim," I may vent a bit of frustration, but I usually stop there. Why? I haven't met a good player yet who makes a regular habit of breaching rules or etiquette. For the most part, I don't want to educate these players! They're paying me, and I'd be afraid that if they somehow did change this part of their game, they'd start changing other parts too (the parts that are paying me).
My motto at the poker table is "Let Sleeping Donkeys Lie..."
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