Where to start on this topic that Charles has brought up. I've tried writing a response a few times but this is such a heated issue that its hard to stay on topic and somewhat short. The are a few problems with the rake. It penalizes action players (the more pots they play in and win/lose the more the house makes), its takes money out of the game (just stick around one night when the game is over with and see for yourself....you'll be extremely pissed off), and if the house doesn't offer certain perks in return (food, tv, safety, ect...) then most good players will end up getting mad b/c long term the house is the only one making money and the game will end. The question shouldn't be if the house takes a rake but what is a fair rake. 5% with a cap (5-10x BB max) is fair to me. The house will still make plenty of easy money and the game will not end as early. Don;t get me wrong, you're still losing money even with a cap but its like they're not sticking in as deep in you. However, if there is no cap on the rake then there is no way to make money long term. And if you are that good/lucky, guess what, you've been screwed out of loads of money that you earned. Think about it, if you're playing a normal $1/$2 game with a "friendly" 5% rake, $1/$20 is being removed from every pot with a "reasonable" cap of $20 once the pot hits $400 which means that on the conservative side of things the house is removing on average $2/hand (that's only a $40 pot which is nothing) and you should be playing at least 20 hands an hour which means that over $50/hr is being taken off the table that no player will have any chance of winning. Throw in a few capped pots, let's say on the tightest of nights with a table full of nits with only 2 big pots/hour bringing the total to around $100/hr raked and play for a short session of only 5 hours and that $500 on the conservative side gone! Now play once a week and there goes $25,000 that you will NEVER have a chance of winning. Talk about -EV. In all honesty, that number is nothing compared to the game I am a regular at. Gone! The rake = prison rape around here. Now some games have smaller rakes but don't offer near amount of perks (food, tvs, all night play, safety, etc...) which should also be considered.
Now online its different (and I may be wrong but I'm pretty certain this was the set up last time I checked), the rake is on average 5% but depending on which level and how many players are at the table depends on the cap. FullTilt screws the micro-limit players taking up to $3 max rake for a .05/.10NL game where max buy-in is $10 and has the same $3 cap for a $100/$200 NL game depending on how many players are in the pot. PokerStars works about the same give or take. However, and this is crucial, online most sites offer RakeBacks which is key to any player putting in a decent amount of hands. PokerStars does not offer RB but they offer more value for their frequent player points (FPPs). I was screwed for the longest time on FullTilt since I didn't have RB on my original account but have since changed that and it is making a huge difference. Already getting back a few hundred this month for the numbers of hands I've put in and won and the real serious players earn far more that I ever could right now. So if you're going to play online, please make sure you're set up through a rake back site and also if you do, please email me so that I can send you my info and I can get credit for bringing you to the site....then I can be like the house and make money while putting nothing at risk...sweet!
When it's all said and done with, players will always hate the rape....errr, rake and the house will always complain that it's not nearly enough enough to cover everything for the risk that they are taking offering the game. The key is to look for profitable places to play that offer value for the money that YOU are putting at risk. In it's simplest form the rake is the amount of money you are willing to pay someone else to allow you to risk your money that you were able to win but receive no compensation for anything that you lose. The house always wins in the end.
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2 comments:
1. Who cares if the rake penalizes "action players"? Tight aggresive play is winning play in poker. Loose aggressive play may have a cool appeal but there are very few loose aggresive winning players in the long run. Contrary to popular belief even in online 6-max games the winning players are only loose in certain situations and aren't nearly as loose as most players think.
2. No one should be paying more than 10% up to $5 live or more than 5% up to $3 online in rake. Anyone playing in a game that charges something like 5% with a 5-10BB cap might as well bend over because you are getting raped. If you think you can be a long term winner in that type of game then you should quit playing poker right now until you educate yourself quite a bit.
3. No one should be playing online without rakeback. With rakeback, bonuses, frequent player program rewards, freerolls, etc. players can get back alot of their rake. There is one network in particular with a good amount of traffic that many American players have probably never played at but if you're playing online you should definitely be playing at because of their exceptional rakeback, bonuses, and player rewards.
If you need help setting up an online account with rakeback I can help. PokerRakeRewards.com is a locally run rakeback site that caters to many American as well as European players. We offer the highest rates (27-60% rakeback) at all the major poker sites, the ability to cashout your rakeback daily at many sites, and access to a $5k+ guaranteed weekly freeroll. We'll be adding a number of exciting new promotions this year including monthly rake races and a program where we will pay your monthly subscription to any of the popular video training sites like CardRunners, DeucesCracked, StoxPoker, etc.
1. One must define "action players" first, to me its the ones who play aggressive (rather lag or tag) and build pots in a live game depending on the situation, not just some moron throwing his money away just to see a flop.
2. $5 max is more of a casino standard then home game but maybe most home games do have a $5 cap. Most around Greenville are higher but that's the penalty you pay for having only a small pool of games to choose from. Like I mentioned before, yeah we are getting bent over but that's just how it is. Then again, all of the free beer, liquor, endless cusine (not talking about free pizza but everything is made from scratch and you can pretty much order what ever you want and the guy will make it for us), does carry it cost. The argument then becomes if the house didn't provide a place to play at, then you would have no chance of making any money what-so-ever b/c most of the older guys will not ever play online plus a lot of players are just looking for a night out also...there are a lot of varibles in this, right now you're just having to give up a large % of it to have the chance to play underground.
3. 100% Agree with. Is Cake Poker really that good ?(I think that's the one yo're talking about but maybe not)
Wow.. wouldn't it be easier just to post a banner sign or something ....lol
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